[RFC] Build Avalanche Liquid Staking for Wonderland

[amuri]

Fellow Frogs. Please reconsider apeing into this vote. I am checking discord and I see many question marks popping above the average user.

The offer from @j_rana is very well written and structured, with a good reasoning process behind it. I have no reason to doubt his claims.
However, I would rather propose we do a call for proposal and invite different developer teams to submit their offers, then we compare the different offers instead of voting the conditions on just one team.

As such, we could let the different developer teams submit their proposals & conditions, and we as a DAO could discuss these offers and then cast a vote on the most fitting dev team. I personally think the amount is still too much. I do know developers in crypto are in high demand, but this is exceeding the limit by far. My main points and concerns are that the proposed developer team of @j_rana is anon/not doxxed. We are given no history of projects consequently.

We can set a layout for a proposal structure something along the lines of:

[Name] [Developer Team] [Conditions] [Time Frame] [Milestones] [Break Clause] [Penalties]

As a DAO, we should consider many options and not just one. I have build and constructed many projects and it has proven to be the best for me personally to invite offers and critically appraise them in a structured manner.

Thanks for your time, I vote to discuss more.

[Corum]

This is way better indeed, I really appreciate the $TIME that went into this reworked proposal, and especially the fact that they listened to what we had to say…
It is a definite LFG from me, Frogs!

[asosao_2416]

@j_rana and team are doxxed to Sifu & Dani

I agree in principle to your idea to solicit proposals from other teams. But who’s going to lead the charge on that? It’s a full-time job to go out there and look for crypto devs who have the knowledge/experience to build something like this and then solicit proposals from them.

Practically it’s not feasible at all, which is why I voted yes on this. It’s a small hit on our treasury (even smaller if they cannot complete dev work), and most of the monetary compensation & incentives is via comp plan and rev-share.

[amuri]

I am saying to open a call for proposals, say until the end of January, to all developer teams. If no one applies then we can go with j_ranas team after all.

[asosao_2416]

You’re free to start that open call for proposals if that’s what you believe in. The community can then decide whether or not they want to move forward with it.

[Shrop_99_Degen]

We can consider this going forward, though I don’t think the RFP method would necessarily work in DeFi like it does in traditional businesses.

In Defi, most devs will be anon. That’s just how it is. Consider Sifu and the rest of the Wonderland team. As stated before, they are doxxed to Sifu and Dani.

[Xande]

I think we can do better deals that are not platform dependent. Too many variants on this case.

[Skrilla]

This Is a great step forward from the original proposal, the success of both party’s is beneficial for everyone.

~FROG NATION~

[NalXes]

@Xande

better deals that are not platform dependent.

What does that mean ?

[steven87vt]

We need to raise in house developers to eventually take over maintenance. As a dev I can tell you 4 years on any 1 project is essentially a lifetime to your career. Every day technology moves and you become stale as you sit still keeping your resume high & tight in the corporate world.

At 110k/year/dev this is enough funding for roughly 4 if they are corporate backed with overhead, maybe 8 if they are all freelance developers. Point being as technology shifts so will developer interests and when personnel rolls over what then? They are not contracted to keep the platform alive in perpetuity.

It would be good of them to maybe help train some community developers on the design & functionality of the program once its in maintenance so community coders can pick up the slack over time. At some point I imagine the dev team will want to move onto greener pastures.

[MMD]

@j_rana

Protocol development for Fantom

Is this included as a part of this contract? If so can we have a timeline for this as well.

I am all for this proposal to go ahead…sooner the better…

[ThusSpokeZarate]

Great to be a part of this process and see a well thought out compromise come to vote. I approve.

However I do have a few remaining questions: Do we have any guidelines laid out for amending the relationship at a future date if there is significant over/under performance relative to the projected numbers?

Will there be any way for frogs to track progress other than waiting for announcements? If not, how frequently/actively does the dev team intend to provide updates?

[asosao_2416]

@j_rana + team are $TIME owners, and are technically part of the community already.

What kind of in-house developer are you looking for that would build something like this for 110k/year when Lido has raised a ton of money? What agency can you contract to build out a liquid staking protocol for $1mm when there are barely any experienced crypto devs out there, much less crypto dev agencies?

I see what you’re saying but we have to be realistic here. There’s not a lot of people that can build this thing, which is why I’ve advocated to keep rev-share attractive for the devs so that they have an incentive to maintain (and improve) the protocol over the coming years.

[asosao_2416]

Great questions. Who will interface with the dev team to keep track and get updates for the community?

CC @0xWicked

[j_rana]

@MMD

Is this included as a part of this contract? If so can we have a timeline for this as well.

Yes: Avalanche first, being the much larger (and thus more profitable to Wonderland) chain, followed by Fantom (which, being EVM, we hope to re-use much of our Avalanche work on).

We don’t have a timeline for Fantom, but we’d expect it to take less time than Avalanche for this reason (i.e. maximum a few months).

@ThusSpokeZarate

Will there be any way for frogs to track progress other than waiting for announcements? If not, how frequently/actively does the dev team intend to provide updates?

Great question. We plan to be active both here on the forums and Discord, and we’ll post regular updates on progress (as well as cute teasers for added Twitter hype )

What’s the community’s preference for updates?

[Shrop_99_Degen]

@steven87vt

We need to raise in house developers to eventually take over maintenance. As a dev I can tell you 4 years on any 1 project is essentially a lifetime to your career. Every day technology moves and you become stale as you sit still keeping your resume high & tight in the corporate world.

Wouldn’t the in house devs become stale then? Probably more stale than these devs considering they are free to work on other projects, but incentivized to stay on the project and keep it running and making it better. $110k isn’t enough for solidity devs. Sifu already mentioned this in discord. “There are no good solidity developers charging $175k/year. Unfortunately.”

But we could probably have them draft documentation to, at minimum, maintain the platform in case there’s rollover in their team.

Remember we are essentially a VC fund that invest in projects. Not trying to become a dev DAO.

[KarePan]

@Shrop_99_Degen

We can consider this going forward, thou

Consider @amuri idea on a call for proposals? I see that as major set back, and the suggested deadline isn’t feasible either, how can we assume there are other teams prepared to delve in such project. This is a matter of trust in a anon environment, i know, but the proposer has laid out many points that sets them ahead of it ( ava labs contacts, two milestones already achieved, ongoing protocol development ).
I totally get the defensive stance, even if there will be eventually competitors the platform launched first will be comfortable for the majority of users bc they are already users, ppl likes comfy.

@j_rana

What’s the community’s preference for updates?

I think discord announcements since there’s high activity there, but paired with twitter, we need more “twitter footprint”, this is a topic discussed recently over discord.

[Shrop_99_Degen]

@KarePan

Consider @amuri idea on a call for proposals? I see that as major set back, and the suggested deadline isn’t feasible either, how can we assume there are other teams prepared to delve in such project. This is a matter of trust in a anon environment, i know, but the proposer has laid out many points that sets them ahead of it ( ava labs contacts, two milestones already achieved, ongoing protocol development ).
I totally get the defensive stance, even if there will be eventually competitors the platform launched first will be comfortable for the majority of users bc they are already users, ppl likes comfy.

Agreed. I don’t think this would work as smoothly in DeFi.

@j_rana

Great question. We plan to be active both here on the forums and Discord, and we’ll post regular updates on progress (as well as cute teasers for added Twitter hype )

What’s the community’s preference for updates?

Discord Announcements is best. Any other way, people may not see it. Setting up a Twitter account may be something worth considering as well. Not only would this work to update on development, but also as marketing.

[ah6]

@j_rana Great proposal!

You mentioned MPC for the custodial solution in phase1:

1. Are you using a service provider for that or leveraging an open-source implementation?
2. Have you considered a Multisig smart contract such as Gnosis Safe instead of MPC?
3. Who will be part of the multi-approval process?

[BrazilRules]

I would be ok for an increase after that possible scenario, but not before