[DAO Discussion] Avalanche Liquid Staking Proposal 🔺

1. General Discussion
#84

There’s no way to justify some of the numbers unless we know more about the devs. Nobody hires someone for four years without doing an interview process.

Dani and Sifu have proven themselves to the community. It may be a short history but they are consistent. Anyone else who has the potential to become a future point of failure, needs to make the effort to establish trust and confidence and show they have skin in the game.

Overall though this is a move I am in favor of. Providing liquidity where it doesn’t currently exist is a no-brainer. Great proposal that should continue to evolve.

8 Likes
#85

Curious to see the due diligence done on this team by the Wonderland folks and as many have said 75/25 seems a bit high, but it would be helpful to see the terms on similar deals done across the space.

2 Likes
#86

Read the proposal. I think theres nothing negative to add. Would bring Avax and the DAO forward in a synergistic way. Win/win for all parties and investors.

5 Likes
#87

The devs aren’t a bunch of randos. According to 0xWicked, the terms above came from preliminary negotiations with Sifu. I imagine Daniele has been involved as well because he’s been hinting at this for a couple of weeks now.

The devs are being hired to deliver a product. We give them half now and half at delivery.

And we’re not really providing liquidity ourselves. We are creating a platform with the $6m for users to stake their AVAX, and eventually FTM. We take a 10% cut of the APR they receive for doing so.

4 Likes
#88

When they say they are in close contact with the Avalanche team then theres has to be some due diligence be done from their (Avax team) side. We as investors obviously just have a limited insight in these details, bzt as long as the DAO core team and the Avax devs communicate with each other potential misunderstandings can be sorted out.

2 Likes
#89

Looks like a good proposition but I would like to understand the expected outcomes (performance of investment) over specific defined periods?
Could a percentage of reward to the team be performance related ? Needs to recognise both under and over performance fairly and in a way that continues to incentivise them. You seem to have covered this in part but without more specific “monetary” targets it seems nebulous.

#90

Yeah this is an interesting part of this whole experiment. The trust of the community depends on those two so without their direct input on this proposal its hard to make an informed decision.

The way I read this was that the primary innovation here is to create a more liquid version of staking AVAX, which now has time restrictions. If not, then couldn’t we just stake AVAX and skip over the new development? Genuinely asking, so any response is appreciated.

#91

we need more clarity on this ambiguous team - who is this team that will get the 25% cut? i trust Dani & Sifu but we are a DAO.

1 Like
#92

Awesome plan seems like a win win for both Avalanche and Wonderland

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#93

I’m so bullish I could eat my desk

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#94

Correct. Liquid staking on AVAX.
Yes, we could stake our own assets, but this proposal is to create a service to generate annual revenue for the DAO without having to commit large amounts of our own assets.

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#95

I think gaining access to AVAX staking will grow wonderland even further. Great proposal. I stand behind it.

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#96

Sounds great to me! I trust the team, and this move makes sense based on the above

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#97

This investment will cost us $6 million up front. That’s 0.6% of our current treasury. This will provide millions of revenue to the DAO for years (if AVAX succeeds which I think most of us believe in).

The 25% revenue share includes their team maintaining the platform as well. It’s not free money. So before people conclude that 25% is too high, let’s better understand their involvement in the project going forward.

10 Likes
#98

All of us are experiencing what could already be a very solid discussion and also beneficial for the DAO and the Frog Nation community, this even benefits the Avalanche community, in the end everything is complemented in one thing, “Financial Empowerment” where it attracts to other bettors to participate and provide liquidity of the same. It is even beneficial for the Multichain.

Dani from before December 31, was already giving certain clues, of the implementation of “Liquid Stake”, I suppose that the team behind and Dani have already spoken with respect to the subject, also of the Wonderland Team logic.

In what I was reading on Discord, I rescued some comments from @ 0xWicked quite interesting, I will only put the points, although they are not in order:

1 what i am saying is that liquid staking is a great way to allow more users to benefit from these yields without having to have the minimum staking requirements. And with this product the DAO would actively receive fees for providing a service through this investment We do not lose any dev resources because another team is incentivized to build it and maintain it.

2 You want to incentivize the team to continue working on staking and innovating the process. If the dev team is not well incentivized, it won’t end well. I think a 75/25 share is excellent in that regard. Plus this product would be released on two different markets (avalanche and fantom)

3 The team is talented, and the product is basically ready. We have an opportunity to tap into the liquid staking market and grab a big share on Avalanche as well as Fantom

4 i trust that the team has the right approach to deliver this product. Tbh its the fastest way for the dao to tap into a whole new way of creating yield without having to hold the volatile asset. And fees scale with the adoption of the product.

5 treasury management is done by sifu. Im happy that we are discussing liquid staking and educating the community about the potential gains that comes from tapping into such a market.

6 yes, the user gets the possibility to stake avax without having to hold a minimum of 2000Avax for a validator, or 25 for delegators. So the entry level of staking avax gets lowered, and the token becomes liquid and tradable. Users that use this liquid token will give 10% of their APY to the DAO while keeping 90%.

Wonderland directly makes fees compared to the adoption of this liquid staked avax.

7 This is the DAO treasury, governance elected sifu to manage the treasury. One of the most powerful aspects of the DAO is the community. And the community needs to be educated on liquid staking and the potential of entering such a market. We can bring immense value to these products, but first you need to understand them. The discussion aims to introduce people to the idea and numbers that a potential involvement can create.

8 we can take adoption of this liquid staking mechanism to the next level. Because our DAO is incentivized to attract new users to this product together with the frog nation ecosystem, we can build even more synergies around this liquid staking product. Which team wouldn’t want the frog nation behind them?

9 these terms have been negotiated by the team, sifu to be specific, and seem very appropriate. This investment opportunity allows our DAO to tap into liquid staking and create additional income "

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I found it interesting to share these jewels here. It helps us to see clearly the discussion in this Phase 1.

16 Likes
#99

I like the idea,I believe this is along term play ,hop on board boys

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#100

still don’t fully understand all of it but I get the added revenue

1 Like
#101

I’m in agreement! Please proceed forward

1 Like
#102

I have a lot of thoughts about this so forgive the verbal spill;

1: From what I understand - correct me if I am wrong, the team that will be implementing this is not part of the existing Wonderland team (Dani, Sifu, others etc). This team is an external party. Who are they? Are they doxxed? Can they be trusted? What are these other projects that they mention but do not name?
“Our existing financial products have grown from early stage startups to be trusted by millions of users every day” Okay, can you tell us more??? What are you, who are you, are you suits, VCs, Defi entrepreneurs?

1a: The team making this liquid AVAX staking proposal wish to have a 25% share of the AVAX staking rewards (25% first 4 years, 15% after). Am I to understand that this cut of the liquid staking rewards is 10% of the current staking rewards TIME stakers currently get as per “The “Opportunity” calculation assumes a 90:10 split of staking rewards between users and Wonderland DAO”?

1b: Does this “Opportunity” actually serve TIME holders in providing more value generation, more income and more staking rewards?

2: 4 years does seem too long, as has been suggested by others here in the comments 1 year with DAO votes for renewal sounds better.

3: What is the current % that TIME stakers receive from the treasury via rebases? Yes I know its not a revenue sharing model - yet - but our rebases still come from the treasury and the treasury investments.

3a: Does the Wonderland Treasury currently stake AVAX in its current illiquid state? Does this “opportunity” make more money for the DAO overall given the 25% cut to the mystery team?

And also as an afterthought, if this team is interested in improving the AVAX network by providing liquid staking, why is Wonderland paying them? They said they are talking to AVAX devs, what are they saying about this?
Why not invest in something that builds upon the Frog Nation ecosystem, Wonderland, Abracadabra, Popsicle, Sushi?

3 Likes
#103

I’m with it! How do we vote?

1 Like